Expansion Fleet - Avalon Archive

I remember it was a bad day for me...

I was at work, no radio or no TV, so I had no idea what was going on.  Then a friend of me messaged me on my phone and wrote me what had happened.  I called him immediately, and he was saying like "its gonna be war! it's gonna be war" and it scared me.
Then my colleague from work called (she was already at home and saw it on TV, and called me to tell me because my girlfriend lives in the US).
And I got really scared, I didn't know what was going on, and what else those terrorists had planned, and most of all I was scared for my girlfriend, even though she lives in Massachusetts, but at that time we didn't know what other targets there were because not all airplanes were accounted for yet.
I know I cried on the phone when I called my friend and talked about it, while I was still at work. I cried because I was afraid of what might happen.
I came home thereafter and put on the TV and saw the horrible video recordings of the attacks, and I cried even more, not only because I was scared for my girlfriend, because that fear had gotten less a bit at that point since nothing was VERY near to her, but also for the horror and the many deaths that this attack has caused.
And I was never more relieved than that day to hear from my girlfriend and to hear her tell me that she was okay... and actually didn't know what had happened yet because she too had not yet put on TV or radio at that time.

Yes I believe that the US had to REACT indeed.  But HOW to react is of the greatest importance of all... and not only to the US, but to the WHOLE world.

So, the US must defend itself? Yes.
The US must continue attacks after the defence? No.

A line must be drawn somewhere, and I understand that you must defend yourself. Not out of revenge, but out of self-preservation.  But simply creating war yourself is never justified, no matter the reasons.

Clinton was better president, but let's not get into that.  That's a whole other can of worms.  I'm afraid of going to war with Iraq becuase of all the things we don't know about, like the type of weapons they have developed that the UN didnt get to inspect.

Hate and rage? Perhaps that is true of some. The president? He is not doing it out of hate. You are purposely blinding yourself to the real reasons. I will try once to explain it to you in plain english.

Think, what if it was the Capitol of Germany, Swedon, or perhaps Russia? Your nation would do everything in its power to stop the people that did it. Even hunting them down and killing them, (don't give me the hogwash about how you wouldn't) simply so they could not do it again...to ANYONE. In fact (but most are to blind to see), America is doing the world a favor. The world's response? A slap to the face. Well, I can say I have a pretty good idea how Jesus felt when the Jews crucified him.

Last time I watched the news..I saw that the Dutch government had accepted a plan to support the actions of the USA, to act against Iraq.
A lot of people were suprised, including me, because we don't think that violence is solved with violence.
If the USA would attack Iraq, Sadam would probably attack too. And that attack would be logically in Europe, because it's closer and this is the ally of the USA.
It was good that they chased Bin Laden, but there are also casualties that didn't had to be.
The USA wants to play the big boss, but they aren't it. It acts like a little child, gimme gimme and if he doesn't get it he(USA) will hit(=Attack) the other one.
Bush was the wrong choice in the USA, he is just one big loser.

I know a man, and he may not always be fair in all his doings. He's a street musician who lives not far away from me. And for your extra information, he's catholic.

One day, he wandered into a street where he wanted to play music, to earn a bit of money.  But another man was already playing there.  Street musician's courtesy asks that he requests permission from the other man first if he can play music a bit further.
And so he did ask that other street musician if he was ok with it.  However, the other one reacted aggressively and punched him hard on the nose.
And so he decided to leave, for his own safety because he's not much of a fighter.

Months later, he was walking on a market, to find a place to play music again.  And guess who he finds there... the man that punched him before.  He's not much of a fighter so he could have tried to avoid the man and walk around him...
but he did not do such thing...
he walked up straight to the man until he faced the man right before him.  The man was about to react aggressively again towards him, until he spoke and told him: "i know you're angry with me, and i don't know why, but i don't mean to fight you. I forgive you for punching me and I will even be your friend if you let me."
At that moment, the other man could have done to him what he wanted; he was totally vulnerable and had no means to defend himself.
But after those words, the other man did not attack him any more, but stared at him with wide eyes...

he had created an opening.
He had not fought violence, with violence.  He had not fought anger, with anger.  He had fought the negative with the positive, and he managed BALANCE.

And from this simple street musician, the US Government can learn alot...

You didn't say you DO understand the point of view either.  Because I fear that you are a minority with your point of view.
Most people don't want this war. But their options are not heard. And i'm afraid that the others will realize this when it's already too late for everyone....

Indeed, Varlory.

I just remembered something, this is a forum to honor the ones that dies in WTC a year ago, not to fight with eatchother. Can´t we open a forum that is dedicated to writing bad words to someone? Instead of writing them in here? I know that you might think I am "hogwashing", but I just say what I think.

And I am also a christian, more precisely, a protestantic christian. But I see no reason for Bush to continue his "crusade" against terrorism. He will not suceed. Not as long as there are peoples that think diffirently with eathother.

Bush are a wright-extreme-christian. That means that he thinks that he are actually fighting the evil here. He has wrong. Sure, it might be, fun to solve everything with your carriers and subs and troops. But is it efficient and ethichal? I really don´t know. But I do know that if we not stop with this behavior it will soon probably make World War 3. An experience I really do not want to have...

This forum has been opened temporary, in memory of the tragic events on Sept 11, 2001.
Most RPG boards close their board on that day, but though their reason is noble, I did not want to copy their idea, so I open this forum instead.
Here you can openly discuss everything you want about this topic, and about a week after Sept 11, this forum will be removed again and the largest topics moved to the OFF-game forum.

I think we were patriotic and united for a moment in time and now we were almost exactly like we were befor it happened, nothing has changed really.  The documentaries are starting to trickle in on tv, even music stations like MTV are reliving the experience.  I'm not sure I can handle watching a single moment of that day.

That is very honorable from you, Valory. And I congrat you for your intervention.
But, as this is described in the Christian Bilble :
"There is a time for war. And there is a time for peace......"
And so on.
I know that Al'Qaeda (and all countries supporting Al'Qaeda) is a Major Threat for the World. But, sometimes making the Choice for Peace is more courageous than making the Choice for War. When you have achieved your Goal in Seeking Justice, then War has no reason no more to continue.....

I remember this sentence that someone gave me, when I was younger :
"There are always many solutions to a problem. The most important is to find the good ONE."

What scares me is 4 words
"Weapons of Mass DESTRUCTION"

are we really stupid enough to attack a country that has the potential firepower to wipe out coutries?

IF America bombs Iraq we will all be involved weather we like it or not.

The UN's hand will be forced regardless of what they say because "IRAQ" will retaliate.

Good point David. I also liked Clinton more then I like Bush. But as Valory said: That is not the point. The point is, that it seems like Bush and Blair are against all the world. Not in a war perhaps, but sure on a political stage. Sure, Hussein may have biological weapons, some may say he did not used them since the gulf war, that is also wrong. But, an attack is not a solution. If USA and UK attacks, what will the casualties then be? 1000? 3000? Or maybee 10 000? In my oppinion it is not a whery good solution to invade Iraq, even if I do understand why the americans wants to do it.

This is actually kind of similar to a thing back in 1962: The Cuba crisis. I know it is not the same, but the goverment of America still had a though problem to solve. Their solution maybee not was the best, but it was with less dead persons then if they should have attacked. In my opinion I´d say that Bush and co should try to freeze all the supplyes Hussein gets instead of attacking the country itself. USA is indeed a superpower that not care so much about the rest of the worlds opinion, so I think they cpuild easily do that. And further, I think that the world should suport Bush if he did so instead of invade the co8ntry.

NBut then we have my personal opinion: Bush want to be remembered just as his father. So: Let´s start the Dessert Storm all over again!!! Yahoo! He will indeed be remembered! But for what?

Excuse me, but it is spelled Usama bin Ladin. It actually is.

And, that was just what you said. You did the worl a favor when you kills all the terrorists. Witch reminds me of the movie, Full Metal Jacket. They are in a chopper in Nam, a guy sitting and shooting women and choldren, another guy ask him how he can shoor them. He answer: If they run, they´r a VC, if they stand still, they´re a well-disciplined VC!

USA seems to think the same way.

Yes, unfortunatly, there are one more thing in this situation: Pride.

1.) I never said I didn't understand the point of view you pointed out.

2.) I said I was sorry, I attepmted to apologize. What more do you want?

To go over to a personal note, Tomas yesterday in the chat you were talking to me about my fight with Strider, and I told you I had uppermost problems getting along with him.
And then you told me "and that is for me the same with X" (I will not fill out the name X because I'm not sure that's a good idea, but you know of whom I speak).  And then I told you to talk to X, and you did, and even so slightly, you evoluted.
But I did not myself.  I gave you the advice that I should have followed myself.
And I did not do it until Winterspoon gave the same advice to ME.  And so, yes, I did talk with Strider and we did end our differences there and then.  He has apologized to me, I have apologized to him, and we have talked about certain differences and put them in a different light so that reality is divided from misunderstandings.
After all, how could I judge over him, if I myself was commanded by anger the whole time?

Noble Idea Admiral.

I wouldnt say that.  I understand other peoples views on the events.  We've only seemed to have fought death with more death, more innocents dying.  But it is also hard for me to say that we shouldn't have fought back.  When I hear what those firefighters have gone through, losing friends and loved ones, seeing the people jumping, searching for bodies and body parts.  All of those children who lost fathers and mothers.  And it's hard, we weren't out for vengence, only justice, I suppose that is just as bad, but when I see those images it's hard for me to say dont fight back, we have to.

(Edited by Valory at 8:49 am on Sep. 10, 2002)

Nocturnus is right. I remember what I was thinking. I was in New Jersey at the time...only one state over. I didn't know if the whole coast was under attack by foreign powers or not. I didn't want war (as I don't wish to serve in the military...even as reserves). But, the Uninted States must do something about the threat to its power. The end of the world? Frankly the answer is that it is quite possible.

Hum-hum, Strider...
If I may point something...
The economy of the USA is at 200 points under the fatal limit. The recession is coming. The only way to solve this problem is to spend money. So, Bush makes war because he has no choice. Because he is not a previsionist. Because he does not forsee the future of his people.
If he could, he would discover a way to stop the relentless crash that is destroying slowly but surely the Economy of the World.

Sorry for you, bud, but Clinton was smarter than Bush. Even if he made some mistakes.

Which is exactly what your doing to America. trying to tell us how we can and cannot react.

Nice spoke Admiral...I totally agree.

I have attempted more than a few ways to create an opening, to make you understand another point of view.  I have looked at it from your religion, hoping that that way you would understand the reasoning, and even quoted something of the bible.  I have explained the experience of a simple street musician I know, and now I give the wisdom of a Star Trek species you chose to play on this RPG. Nothing seems to get through you.
Your attitude is an insult on civilization in general.

As Per Presidents and Prime MInisters or any world leader.

They are all GOOD and BAD at the same time.  YOu will never have a person who can PLEASE EVERYBODY.

Bush is doing what He thinks is right and most may not agree with him.

or he could've done nothing and Many may not be happy about that either.

Give the guy a break if you could run country better you do it and you'll understand that as humans we are difficult pigs to live with.

Austalians are in uproar over here as well.  Our fantastic Prime Minister has just allied our army with the Americans. as a show of good will.

People, tomorrow I will move this topic to the OFF-game forum and remove the Sept 11 forum.  So this topic is not lost and you will be able to post in it afterwards still if you wish, but it'll just be found in the OFF-game forum as of tomorrow. Thanks.

on Sept 11, 2001 ... at about 3.00 pm (GMT) I was in Berlin in the glass-cupola of the Reichstag (the german government house) we were in Berlin with our class and made a trip. we felt very sad, and were afraid, that something like this could happen here in Germany, esp. in Berlin, too .... a half houre later, we had to leave the Reichstag, and outside the building, there were tanks, heavy armed soldiers and in the whole city u could see military, police and security people. In the evening we came back to the youth hostel there we could watch CNN and NBC and saw the horrible pictures, videos and reports, from New York ..... it was terrible, some of us sit in the corners, screamed, some people prayed or cried .... later we went to the hard rock cafe in berlin, to think about other things.
But the next days, we could not really enjoy our tour.

I hope I will forget this day sometime .... and I hope, that the people who died and their families will find peace ....

---
greetz to Dagmar, who lost her aunt in the WTC!
---

...... that was my Sept. 11, 2001

I remeber I was sick that day, still upset over the funeral of my best friends mom on the 3rd.  I was sitting on the couch watchin the Today show, when all of a sudden they showed a pic of one of the wtc on fire.  They were talkin about how it might have happened, when right before our eyes the second plane crashed.  Thats when we knew it was terrorists.  I sat on that couch all day and watched and listened as the whole thing transpired.  And yes I was afraid.  They closed the airports, and I remember the silence outside, but they said that there were still planes unnacounted for.  It was hard to watch anything about that day for months, only now can I watch some of it, but it still brings tears, and fears.  We have moved on and some have forgotten.  But we are not supposed to forget.  If we forget, then those people died in vain.  I am only soo lucky that my cousins who are firefighters, and cops, while one was injured, none died.  I am very thankful for that.  I can never wipe the memory of that day out of my mind.

Quote

Quote: from Shakira on 6:23 pm on Sep. 8, 2002 I can't believe a year has gone already since that day. Seriously, a year and still people are scared. I'm not saying 'hey be cool', but living with fear is not the way you should live your life. Learn from your experiences and from others' (life is too short to learn from yours only, it is said), move on. I know it's way easier saying it than actually doing it, but not trying to is (in my opinion) the worst thing you could do. I heard it's better to get lost in the sea than never get on the ship. Not that I want you to be lost in the sea, but the intention of that phrase is to remark the importance of trying. Now, that's all I had to say. Peace out!

I think that Sara has right. I do remember it, but not as it was yesterday. I remember it as it was a year ago. I was coming home from school and saw a plane fly in to a building and thought: Wierd movie" or something. Don´t be mad at me, but I actually thought it the first couple of seconds. then a news-guy started to speak or something and I realised that it was not a poor movie, it was reallity. I did not reacted whery much, sure, I understand that many persons are sorry and have right to be for what happened. I was mostly confused actually, what had happened? and so on. It is not that I do not think that it was a bad act, I just didn´t felt whery sorry. I know it was bad by whoever did it (Usama might be inicent, who knows? He did say he made it, but yet...?) and he may rotten in #### or get put up on a nuclear bomb or something, but I have whery hard to get emotions as sorrow, even when I know I should have them. I was avtually not scared that they should do something like this to us (Sweden), becouse we are not involved in the things that USA are. You may excuse me Val, but so it is. But sure I think it is a whery, whery horrible thing that happened almost a year ago, do not come and say that I do not think that!

I hate this.  Yet again we have gone to Level Orange and they say there is a very high risk of terrorist attacks.  I'm afraid becuase nut only is there a nuc power plant here, this is where the Pres. comes from.  But what can I do about it.  I remember how many times after the attacks, news came on and said there is a potential for another attack, and then all the info about bio warfare.  People were afraid to open their mail.  I knew it was very unlikely that we would recieve an envolpe, but that doesnt mean it couldn't have come into contact with some.  Now some bomb makin materials here have been stolen.  I think eventually I'll just go numb, sometimes I wish for it.  I just pray everyday that there isn't another 9/11, or anything close to it.

Believe me I know we are safe no where.  I have learned that lesson a few years ago.  I do try to live everyday, I have seen too much death around me not to know how lucky I am.  But that doesnt take away the fear.

The American super power is gone the day a 2 aircrafts destroyed the WTC and bombed the pentagon.

Now a year later we are on the border of war with Iraq and why?
Because bush cant keep this guns in this pocked.
Leave Saddam alone before he kills people that don't need to die because of America.
I come from Holland and I can insure that our country people don't want to have this war.
Don't attack Iraq unless you want to end of Europe and Russia and America on your hands mr bush.  

Smarter...? Nah...just....hmmmmm....more of a weasel....looked for loopholes to everything...if it wasnt there, he made it up. so....Smarter? Never.

"Not being an american, you can't understand". No I indeed don't understand the ways of hatred and rage that too many americans do. I understand they are afraid, and that they resent sept 11, but hatred and rage to destroy countries and innocent people over it, no that goes beyond my understanding indeed. Luckily there are also americans that have actually the insight that war will not solve this, it will only make things worse.

And I agree with Winterspoon and Valory: Clinton WAS a better president, to my opinion.  It's not because he cheated on his wife, that he was not able to rule his country.  At least he ruled his country in a CIVILIZED way, not in the ways of the DEVIL FILLED WITH HATRED.

I know that America is an uppermost Christian land, so I ask them: is it the will of God to revenge people?  To kill a 1000 innocent people just to get one man?  Is it in the bible that killing is the right thing to do?
"He who is without sins, throw the first stone," Jesus once said to a woman who was about to be stoned to death for a sin, "and though I am without sin, I will not throw a stone at you either."
And all I see is Christians throwing stones... who do you think I respect more, them, or their God?  Jesus made a point and see how many forgot the meaning of it...

It is Sweden. And it is not hogwash... Sweden would not "weed out" the terrorists. Maybee the ones in Sweden but certainly not outside Sweden. How do I know that? Becouse I am from Seeden. And we have a alliance-free politc, that means that we will not attack other countryes to get terrorists. You may not belive me, but who better knows then a actuall swede? Or, do you say that I do not know how my own country should react?

(Edited by Tomas Goransson at 7:26 pm on Sep. 13, 2002)

Touché to David The only country that actually would dream about doing something like thios is USA. Not even Russia would do it if they had money. So mouch I can tell.

(Edited by Tomas Goransson at 7:50 pm on Sep. 13, 2002)

And what weapons, uh? The man wants to beat his father, that is why he do this.

Strider, for a Christian, YOU DO NOT HONOUR the Precepts of your Religion.
I'm very disappointed about you.
You support a War that will destroy a mass of innocents, will make eternal damages to many countries, will split the remaining harmony between people and nations for a long time.
You have an 'Apocalyps Book' in your Bible. You like it? Yes, it seems. You are enjoying the Destruction. You hate Creation and LifeCare. Question :

ARE YOU A CHRISTIAN?

If you really WERE, you would do everything to PERSUADE People around you to maintain the Balance between Death and Birth, Destruction and Construction... and so on... To say shortly : to PRESERVE LIFE.

IF this War between USA anf some of the Arabian People will increase, the World will be touched in totally. The Biological Weapon is a weapon that makes no choice... How many deaths do you want, o so-called Christian?

Finally, when I watch seriously Islamism, Jewism and Christianism, I'm proud to be CELT! And nothing else!

Why do you persist in insulting me?

I admit right here right now to the entire board. I insulted your religion, i'm sorry. I tried to apologize before, but you ignored me...twice. If it is over that, what is the point of continueing it...other than making us hate each other? There isn't. If it isn't the reason, please say why....honestly, as I have, before the whole board.

Ok, but that doesn't explain why you continue to ignore me and won't accept my apology. Nor does it directly answer why you continue to insult me. I wish to know please.

Ok, well I can understand the point of view. Violence shouldn't always be fought with violence. However my belief is that this is one of those exceptions....however unfortionate.

I don't know what to say.  I believe there is no possible way to make peace with Iraq.  I'm not sayin we should attack, but how can you make peace with a phsyco.  He uses his own people as body sheilds.  America went into Afg. searching for Usama and his followers.  We did not go there to kill innocents, we tried to help with food drops, as did other countries I'm sure.  We are not all totally filled with rage, but you must understand americans to understand their viewpoint, just as we must understand other countries to understand theirs.  Most of us here are from diff. countries, have grown up in diff. societies, and customs.  We are fighting over our diff. viewpoints becuase we don't understand where everyone is coming from, and cannot except nor agree with each others opinions in some cases.  

Bush reminds my of a song of the james bond movies

Gladys Knight: Licence to kill

Ok, he moight have lisense. But he have lisense from his father only. (Not his real dad, just a more simplyfied situation) The rest of the block are disagreeing.

I can't believe a year has gone already since that day. Seriously, a year and still people are scared. I'm not saying 'hey be cool', but living with fear is not the way you should live your life. Learn from your experiences and from others' (life is too short to learn from yours only, it is said), move on. I know it's way easier saying it than actually doing it, but not trying to is (in my opinion) the worst thing you could do. I heard it's better to get lost in the sea than never get on the ship. Not that I want you to be lost in the sea, but the intention of that phrase is to remark the importance of trying.

Now, that's all I had to say. Peace out!

What has happened a year ago, has happened, and nobody alive can do ANYTHING to undo the terrible horror that has happened exactly a year ago.

We cannot bring back the death, but those who are alive can try and make the best of it.
Valory: I understand perfectly that you live everyday in fear now, and that you must feel very unsafe where you are.  Most other people would, and probably do, feel just the same way as you do.  But frankly speaking, no place in the world is completely safe, and danger lures at us from every corner.
But it is not a matter of danger luring at us or not.  It is a matter of when our task in this life, on this planet, is done.

"As long as you live, you have not fulfilled your task for this life."
So to those who die, and have died, they have fulfilled their task and their souls can be sent in peace to the Otherworld.  They are relieved of the material limits, the boundaries of this 3D universe, but their souls are totally free to know, to see everything and to be everywhere.
Death is merely the beginning of new life, and death is no burden to the body that has died, but to the ones that remain behind alive.

And it is the people that remain alive, that must make the best of their lives.  So indeed as Nocturnus said, live your OWN life getting up every day and give the sunrise a smile.

Valory: you may be living in a dangerous area, but for all we know, something might have happened to you before already.  But that didn't happen, and that itself means that you are SUPPOSED to be here still, and your being alive is more important than you may think.  Your task in this life is not done, so please try not to live in fear but be grateful for every day you have, and may you live many days of your life and grow old happy, without all these fears.  Try to live today, not yesterday, nor tomorrow.  There is no time better than the present.

I must admit that Traas have a point here. The Expression "We will hunt them down and we will weed them out" makes me really frighten. Sure, I do not forbidd them to defend themself. But till what price? They could nuke Afghanistan, they could invade or nuke Iraq. But it would not help.

The Evil, as Bush tells us, will always be there is there are no other solution then to kill eathother.

If a terrorist attack were to be unleashed on a certain place in Belgium, the Belgium government would seek for the one who is responsible, and go after them PERSONALLY. But killing 1000 people's and the nature of a country for it? Come on.

Doing the world a favour with destruction and killing? HAHAHAH.

My girlfriend's mother is very catholic, and far more extreme than you are in christianity, Strider, and I tell you something: she is ALOT more open minded than you ever were and ever will be.
If you are going to keep your narrow-minded crap poisoning my RPG, i WILL take action to make sure you CANNOT any more. This is my RPG. I hope I made myself clear on that.

Bush is bad, Clinton was good!

The book you refer to is Revelation. Yes, I am a Christian. Do I enjoy seeing people killed, slaughtered in their homes? NO! It is true I look forward to the day that I die. Is it true America has killed thousands of innocent people? Yes, it is. Have other countries done it? Yes, they have. But setting religion aside, and still hating killing, I can look objectively on what is being done. I would love world peace. But the only way I can forsee it even begin to come about is through another major war. Also, I would like to point out how tiresome it is becoming always being attack because of/for my chosen religion.

I just have with my last post.

Hehehe, who said he have license? He do it anyway. He are chosen by the people of the United States of America.

(But I still says that he want to be better then his father. And I will always belive that.)

May god have mercy on their souls!

A big catastroph? Yes. End of the world? No. The human will find a way to protect themself just so they can start another war. Ain´t it greate? *Sarcasm*

I couldn't have said it better myself Alpharex. Sorry Tomas...but not being American....you can't understand...and unfortionately many Americans don't either.

No, we are just teklkling you that it is not sain to make a Dessert Strom one more time.

Clinton needs to return Bush only wants to fire this weapons.

"But setting religion aside, and still hating killing, I can look objectively on what is being done. I would love world peace. But the only way I can forsee it even begin to come about is through another major war"

1) You cast aside your religion when it pleases you, and you use it to your advantage when it pleases you. You are Christian, or you are NOT. Not something in between.

2) If a major war is to bring peace, then i see only one way: so everyone is killed and there's nobody left to fight... then it's easy to have world peace
Destruction and death will not bring peace, but more hatred.

Everyone refer to my last post on the previous page, please.

Hmm...Tomas, your wrong about the president not having a "Liscense to Kill". The American House & Senate have granted the president full use of: the Army, the Green Berets, the Navy, the Navy Seal's, the Marines, the Air Force, the Coast Guard, the Nataional Guard, Black Ops, the FBI, the Cia, the NSA...etc in any way he (the president) see fit in dealing with the terrorists.

A year is 365 days......(366)
But what are 365 days..I remember the day of the crash like it was yesterday.
I came home from school and turned on the computer...i was talking on msn when I was told I had to turn on the tv...when I did this I saw the images of the crashing planes..it was terrible..that day the tv was the centre of information and horrible pictures...

This day will always be in our memories.....it will never fade away

Where this is a struggle for power, their will always be devistation and war.

but yes the tradegy was very distrubing even for us over in australia.

I remember being asleep and being woken by the telephone of a frantic friend, Christian brothers would understand this.

"Is this the end of hte world, America (Super Power) has been dealt a strong blow."

I'ms ure many could imagine who has ever listend to their sunday school teacher or church priest/pastor at some point in time, that the world could end.

It was very unsettling and I was well rather devestated.

Our church on the sunday just gone, replayed the whole tradegy signifing it's impact to the world and how much damage could be done iin such a short of time.

Reading hte news over hte past few days it seems again something big is going ot happen.  Iraq will not relinguish it's stand on weapons of mass destructions and thus the power must be disposed of.

Destruction and death will always sadden me.  Live out your days my friends and always look forward to the following sunrise with smiles on your faces.

I must tell everyone this before I give my thoughts on 9-11. I'm a messianic Jew (meaning that I am a jew that believes in Jesus as the messiah).  9-11 was the greatest tragedy to hit us since Pearl Harbor. We ask why, especially me. Here is my explanation of why. We have thrown God, the diety on whom America was established. We have slapped our forefathers in the face and expected to be an invinsible nation. The same was said for the Titanic, they said "Not even God could sink this ship." Of course, as you know, it sunk on its MAIDEN VOYAGE. God hates to do this to us Americans, but  we have forgotten who created us, who made us the nation that we are. Please forgive me if I've offended anyone here. You  don't have to listen to me. Just think about it if you seem interested in what I've said. If not, just forget I've said anything.

I am American. I'm not 100% jewish I live in Montana and have not always observed the Jewish ways. I started doing that about seven years ago. so I do understand:)

1.) Yes, it is your RPG
2.) I never said killing and destruction was a favor.
3.) We are after one person. Osoma Bin Laden. The other casualties are unfortionate.
4.) I never said I was...or wanted to be "extreme".

I agree..but Bush has been chosen...who is this possible? if more ppl are against his dissisions?

Some Vulcan wisdom...

Ideally, do no harm. Harm speeds up the heat-death of the Universe, and indirectly, your own.
More practically, do as little harm as possible. We are creatures of a Universe in which entropy exists, and therefore see no way of escape, but we do not need to help it.

Harm no one's internal, invisible integrities. Leave others the privacies of their minds and lives. Intimacy remains precious only insofar as it is inviolate: invading it turns it to torment. Reach out to others courteously: accept their reaching in the same way, with careful hands.

Do no murder. The spear in the other's heart is the spear in your own; you are he. All action has reaction: what force you inflict, inevitably returns. The murder of the other is the murder of your own joy, forever.

As far as possible, do not kill. Can you give life again to what you kill? Then be slow to take life. Take only life that will not notice you taking it. To notice one's own death increases entropy. To die and not notice it increases it less, but still does so.

Cast out fear. Cast out hate and rage. Cast out greed and envy. Cast out all emotion that speeds entropy, whether it be love or hate. Cast out these emotions by using reason to accept them, and then move past them. Use in moderation emotions that do not speed entropy, taking all care that they do not cause others pain, for that speeds entropy as well. Master your passions, so that they become a power for the slowing of the heat-death.

Do no harm to those that harm you. Offer them peace, and offer them peace again, and do it until you die. In this manner you will have peace, one way or the other, even if they kill you. And you cannot give others what you have not experienced yourself.

Problem solved.....(Ithink). Am I right Vorak, did we solve the problem?

Precisely.